Cubs MLB Roster

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37 players are on the MLB RESERVE LIST (three slots are open)

Last updated 11-17-2023
 
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PITCHERS: 20
Adbert Alzolay 
Michael Arias
Javier Assad
Ben Brown
Jose Cuas
Kyle Hendricks
Porter Hodge
* Bailey Horn
Caleb Kilian
Mark Leiter Jr
* Luke Little
Julian Merryweather
Daniel Palencia
Michael Rucker
* Drew Smyly
* Justin Steele
Jameson Taillon
Keegan Thompson
Hayden Wesneski 
* Jordan Wicks

CATCHERS: 2
Miguel Amaya
Yan Gomes

INFIELDERS: 8
Nico Hoerner
Nick Madrigal
* Miles Mastrobuoni
* Matt Mervis
Christopher Morel
Dansby Swanson
Luis Vazquez
Patrick Wisdom

OUTFIELDERS: 7
Kevin Alcantara
Alexander Canario
* Pete Crow-Armstrong
Brennen Davis
# Ian Happ
Seiya Suzuki
* Mike Tauchman

 


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Sweet (Lou) Emotion

Submitted by Christian Ruzich on
Whatever Lou Piniella's strengths and weaknesses are, one sure thing is that he is never boring. Stories of his many and varied umpire arguments and on-field freakouts are legendary, and thanks to YouTube we can watch a few of the best of them over and over. May 28, 2002: Lou disagrees with a call by John Shulock and covers both home plate and Shulock's feet with infield dirt: September 18, 2002: Lou disagrees with C.B. Bucknor about a call at first. He ends up tossing the base into the outfield (twice) and injuring his shoulder and hamstring. Good times...

Comments

Submitted by Ryno on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:25 am

The ump from the 2nd video was doing everything he could to keep from laughing. The entire Texas dugout got a good kick out of that. That was amusing, thanks.

Submitted by CubFanFormerly… on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:52 am

Lou's arguments with the umpires will certainly be an amusing diversion. As a manager of men, which is a manager's most important job, but the the one we fans appreciate the least (while going ballistic over game management when any given result from a move (or non-move) by manager is mostly luck), Lou has a pretty good record. He will still suck if there are three chumps in the starting rotation and if both the SS oand 2B fail to get over the .700 OPS line. Joe McCarthy, Frank Chance, and John McGraw would stink in the same circumstances. For those looking for more arguments to mash Chad with, see today's N.Y. Times at http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/18/opinion/18leitch.html?th&emc=th. A Cardinal fan with a realistic look at his team quality (or lack thereof - liked him comparing the Cardinals to a wounded Civil War with a green leg - not your usual sports metaphor), he says about playoff baseball: "He (Beane)was right, but not in the way most people understood him. Itís not that his approach in particular didnít work; itís that nobodyís does. Itís almost entirely luck." For his explanation, read the article.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:45 am

told you Lou was fiery... I still think sticking up for your players on the field is important, go read what the A's players had to say about Macha.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:48 am

buried in the last thread... http://tinyurl.com/yxlp2f Regarding Matsuzaka: Hendry indicated Tuesday the Cubs will enter the blind bidding, but at least eight other teams are in that derby. Hendry, however, indicated the Cubs put an unusual amount of effort into scouting Asia this season and believe they have found "two or three pitchers over there we feel can start here." One of those could be Hiroki Kuroda, a 31-year-old right-hander who was 13-6 with a 1.86 ERA last season. He's an unrestricted free agent. Kazumi Saito, who outpitched Matsuzaka by going 18-5 with a 1.75 ERA this season, also could be available.

Submitted by jacos on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:58 am

"Hendry indicated Tuesday the Cubs will enter the blind bidding, but at least eight other teams are in that derby." I bet they are in the top three. And I bet they will show.

Submitted by vorare on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:08 am

Just dug around a little bit for some info on those two. Kurodo's nickname in Japan is "Mr. Complete Game," as he is near the top of the league in complete games almost every season. His performance this year was definitely nice, but I think his career ERA is closer to 4.00. I have no idea if he had a lucky year of if he's made some kind of changes, but either way the durability is certainly appealing. Saito looks like he's just flat out nasty. He's won Japan's equivalent of the Cy Young twice. He'll be 29 in November. His record from 2003-2006 is 64-16 (20-3 in 2003, 16-1 in 2005). They both made around $2 million in 2006.

Submitted by Ron on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:14 am

He's gonna get a heart attack on the field....

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:18 am

Rogers could have been just throwing out those names, doesn't sound like they came from Hendry. But thanks for the info. Surprised we haven't heard more about this Saito character.

Submitted by Ryno on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:28 am

If Daisuke is going for $10 mil + I have a problem with the Cubs going after him. I'd much rather they went after Schmidt then.

Submitted by Ryno on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:29 am

Let me add that I think he'll only go for about $8 million, and it won't be the Cubs anyways.

Submitted by vorare on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:33 am

If he only gets $8 million per year, I'll be shocked. There are some rumors the total cost (contract plus posting fee) could go over $100 million.

Submitted by mannytrillo on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:34 am

Hey the Cubs organization might SUCK and haven't won in 98 years and counting, but at least we have a "fiery" manager who gives great quotes and makes an ass out of himself on the field....WOO!!!! The FA period can't start quick enough...We can finally start talking about real important things, like players. What is taking so long with the ARam thing? They exchanged numbers last week and this is soemthing that could of been worked on for weeks.WE still got a couple weeks, but it would be very nice to put that huge issue to bed ASAP.

Submitted by mannytrillo on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:37 am

Jacos: "I bet they are in the top three. And I bet they will show." Right, just enough for Hendry to say he tried, but just got outbid.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:40 am

He's a Boras guy and I heard 5/60 thrown out there which seems reasonable for his age. The fact is if you win the bidding, your not going to cheap out on the contract. The bidding thing is just going to throw everyone off. Do the Yanks care that they got burned by Irabu? I mean there haven't been any reallly succesful Japanese pitchers yet that have come over. Are we really going to be mad as fanbase if we bid $20 mil on this guy and lose? Does that $20 mil count against the budget this year or even over strung out over a few years? Or does Tribco realize that it's a good marketing investment on top of a potenitally good baseball investment? Shit, is this guy even going to be good? I like what I saw in that video, he hits his spots and that breaking pitch looks pretty nasty and his funky delivery will throw off hitters for awhile. I imagine he'll have a lot of success in his first year, we'll see if he can adjust. I'm all for Schmidt too, but lots of teams are going to go after him. Short list would likely be: Houston Seattle LA Dodgers Cubs Yankees Mets Giants Red Sox I'm just guessing off the top of my head, no reason any of those teams can't make legit runs. Seattle has no state tax and it's his hometown (or home state) so they got that going for them. We're talking with his age likely a 3/36 or 4/48 range deal. Hell maybe more like $13 mil a year.

Submitted by Doug Dascenzo on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:47 am

The one problem with going after Daisuke and paying him $10-$12 million/year, is that will drive up Zambrano's price when negotiations start for his extension. How does it look to him when the team he plays for ponies up huge dough for a guy whose never even pitched in the big leagues?

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:47 am

but at least we have a "fiery" manager who gives great quotes and makes an ass out of himself on the field....WOO!!!! yeah, compared to the last guy who just made an ass out of himself in the dugout and to the press. Hard to see how getting outbid on Matsuzaka will be on Hendry. It's going to be a long term business decison made by Tribco, because if the posting fee counts against this year's budget we should stay far away from Matsuzaka as possible. If Trib realizes that it's a good investment in terms of marketing, it's going to be there call how much they're willing to pony up. Since it seems we're enterting the bidding, I think it's fair to say that Hendry's scouts like what they saw and think he's worth taking a shot at. It's really up to Tribco now... Aram and Hendry will probably talk this week again, it's pretty fair to think that he wanted to see who the new manager was, so I don't see the big deal. Hendry can't hypnotize these guys to sign when he wants them to, there's two sides to it.

Submitted by mannytrillo on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:50 am

Doug D.: "The one problem with going after Daisuke and paying him $10-$12 million/year, is that will drive up Zambrano's price when negotiations start for his extension." Excellent point...I didn't think of that. I have been in the camp of passing on Daisuke, and your point only adds to that.

Submitted by nate on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:50 am

Hideo Nomo was pretty successful for his first few years as a Dodger, but it was pretty ugly there at the end. I think Otsuka has turned out to be a dependable reliever, but I can't think of any other Japanese starters that had more than a year or so of sustained success. Kaz Ishii, for one, was a total disgrace.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:50 am

well Z's market has been set by Oswalt...5/73 and matsuzaka shouldn't get that. Z will get something around oswalt's deal (although I'd tack on a few extra option years or something), probably escalating into the latter years. I assume he'll get about $10 mil for next year like he would have in arbitration and it'll keep going up from there. We probably won't here about Z's deal until arbitration comes up or spring training just like Wood, Lee and Ramirez.

Submitted by vorare on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:51 am

Zambrano is a safe bet to make around $14 million per year (over the length of his contract). Giving Matsuzaka $10-12 million isn't going to change his demands.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:54 am

yeah Nomo and Sasaki were okay, but not the sustained success they're expecting from Matsuzaka. I'd prefer Schmidt, but Matsuzaka's age is appealing too. Him and Z seem like 2 workhorses who could fill out the rotation for the next 5-6 years. Throw in a cheap Rich Hill and that's the makings of a nice young core for a long time. Marshall, Guzman, Prior, Veal, Gallagher, Pawelek all in the mix too. Hell Kerry Wood might come back as a starter one day.

Submitted by mannytrillo on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:54 am

Rob G.: "Hard to see how getting outbid on Matsuzaka will be on Hendry." Thus the nickname "Teflon Jim". But it really depends how they work it budget wise. If it comes 100% out of the marketing budget, then I would be for bidding on him, but if it comes out of this years budget, then no way. Because then we need to add the roughly $10 million for his salary. Even with a payroll of $115, we would still not really improve the team much if we add him.

Submitted by jacos on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:50 am

"Hideo Nomo was pretty successful for his first few years as a Dodger" ....and former Cub farm hand.

Submitted by Chad on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:02 pm

"For those looking for more arguments to mash Chad with,' Will DAMN then. If Will Leitch says its luck, it must be luck. F that. If winning in the post season is all about luck, then I quit being a fan. Lets just play the regular season and let the team with the best record be the champ. BS!!!!! Its not luck. Its skill. Sure luck is PART of it but the reason that its different than the regular season is that you only play WINNING TEAMS. You cannot play a sub .500 team (although it almost happened). And the whole thing about the Royals? Again BS. But let's take, say, the Twins out of this year's playoffs and replace them with the Royals. I would bet you all the money that I have that they wouldn't win the world series. But go on and believe its all luck and find a way to enjoy this. Or go watch lotto results that must be fun or The World Series of Dice.

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:13 pm

yeah..lou's tirades.. nothing says 'leadership' like being in the clubhouse taking a shower by the 5th inning or out of the picture during a tense moment. hope he's put a handle on that. argueing a battle you're gonna lose anyway doesn't do anyone much good. "magically" the team still goes on without the manager and the game still gets played. players playing the game...funny notion.

Submitted by Doug Dascenzo on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:16 pm

Chad - My point regarding luck in the postseason (from about a week ago) was that there is much more luck in the postseason than during the regular season. Over 162 games, luck balances out and the true "best team" emerges. In the postseason, if a few breaks go your way, you can win at least one series and sometimes the World Series. And luck doesn't always have to mean good calls or a bloop single. I'd say the Cardinals are winning more out of luck than skill simply because the Mets have had 2 pitchers injured in the last few weeks, and Jeff Weaver sucks but has given them a couple excellent performances. Slap those lucky breaks together, and the Cards might just wind up in the World Series.

Submitted by Seamhead on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:21 pm

Houston Chronicle reports that players at the playoffs have indicated that Carlos Lee is "close to a dead-solid lock" to sign with the Astros.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:22 pm

managers end up just managing the game from the clubhouse, so getting thrown out doesn't affect much. considering your stance on having the respect of the players being important for a manager, I'm a little surprised on your stance crunch. i'm sure you've read the stuff coming from the A's players about Macha by now.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:24 pm

Carlos has a ranch outside of Houston which is probably where that is coming from. So Lee in Houston makes a lot of sense. Someone could go crazy though and offer insane cash, you never know.

Submitted by Chad on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:26 pm

Doug, how about the luck in the regular season of getting to play the Pirates, Cubs and Brewers 18 times vs. playing in any other division with good teams? Don't you understand that the fact that there is luck inherent in all sports and games but the reason you play 7 games series is to keep that down. If its all just luck, the lets have a 1 game world championship.

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:28 pm

"considering your stance on having the respect of the players being important for a manager, I'm a little surprised on your stance crunch." when i see a leader acting like a child "respect" is the furthest thing from my mind. losing track of why you're there to begin with and taking on losing battles for the sake of doing it isnt something i respect. i once worked for a subdivision of NCR where my boss, and leader of the division, was a "wild" type who banged his shoe kruschev-style whenever he needed to "mobilize the troops"...it wasnt scarey...it wasnt endearing...it was funny and foolish. eventually, during an negociation with a minor client during a sales meeting he made a major ass of himself throwing a fit that resulted in me and a salesman walking out on him. we'd seen enough, and his brand of leadership took over the purpose of why we were there to begin with. he didnt last too much longer. he didn't have the trust or respect he once commanded just by his job title and the business he built before NCR swallowed it up. he became his own worst enemy by becoming bigger than the situation in an unneccesary manner. it did no one any good and distracted from the purpose of why we were there to begin with.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:33 pm

yelling and screaming at your own players for show isn't what I'm talking about. ... I'm talking about standing up for your players on the field....

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:36 pm

a losing battle is a losing battle and what i see pinella doing isnt sticking up for players. i see opposing dugouts laughing, umpires lauging, and a game put on hold while a grown man turns a baseball game into a side-show exhibition where he's the star. i dont see leadership in a guy becoming bigger than the game on the field. its the things he does AFTER he's tossed that's more damning and embarrasing. his point is no longer in play, he's putting the entire game on hold so he can have a temper tantrum.

Submitted by MikeC on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:23 pm

If you want to compare Nomo to Matsuzka, you can. Though I think they are two totally different pitchers. Nomo's success was greatly credited to his delivery, it also helped that he had great stuff. But his delivery really helped him out, but as he got older, the league got used to him and maybe his velocity or mechanics were thrown off trying to keep that same quirky delivery. Matsuzaka has no such problems. His mechanics are for the most part normal. He has a little hitch in his windup with no one on base but with people on base he has a fast compact delivery to the plate. He relies on his stellar command and his vast array of pitches to confuse hitters rather than an unorthodox delivery like Nomo used. But if you want to go stats wise... Nomo - 1990 - Japan - 18 wins, 2.91 ERA, 287 SO's Nomo - 1991 - Japan - 17 wins, 3.05 ERA, 287 SO's Nomo - 1992 - Japan - 18 wins, 2.66 ERA, 228 SO's Nomo - 1993 - Japan - 17 wins, 3.70 ERA, 276 SO's Nomo - 1994 - Japan - 8 wins, 3.63 ERA, 126 SO's He had some shoulder problems in 1994 that cut his season short Nomo - 1995 - Dodgers - 13 wins, 2.54 ERA, 236 SO's Nomo - 1996 - Dodgers - 16 wins, 3.19 ERA, 234 SO's Nomo - 1997 - Dodgers - 14 wins, 4.25 ERA, 233 SO's Matsuzaka will be transitioning to the US game at the same time Nomo did at around the age of 26. Matsuzaka -99- Japan - 16 wins, 2.60 ERA, 151 SO's Matsuzaka -00- Japan - 14 wins, 3.97 ERA, 144 SO's Matsuzaka -02- Japan - 6 wins, 3.68 ERA, 78 SO's I think this is the time he missed all of 1991 and most of 92 with a shoulder problem. Matsuzaka -03- Japan - 16 wins, 2.83 ERA, 215 SO's Matsuzaka -04- Japan - 10 wins, 2.90 ERA, 127 SO's Matsuzaka -05- Japan - 14 wins, 2.30 ERA, 226 SO's Matsuzaka -06- Japan - 17 wins, 2.13 ERA, 200 SO's Matsuzaka was a really raw pitcher when he started out at age 18. He was only punching out about 150 batters but also walking 80-90 in his first couple years. This season he just finished he struck out 200 and only walked 33. To say he is getting better each year and isn't even 27 is an understatement. So what kind of transition will Matsuzaka have and how long can he maintain that success? What is pretty much well know, that a pitcher as good as he is should have tremendous success in their 1st year. If he follows the exact same path of success as Nomo (which I highly doubt) he should give you 3 very successful seasons. For a team that wants to win now, he fits perfectly into those plans. If you just look at 1st years for Japanese pitchers like Otsuka of the Rangers, Saito of the Dodgers this year and Mr. Zero for the Whitesox (probably a poor example as he was aging and his velocity wasn't all that great) they all had phenominal 1st years. Saito is pushing 36 and actually out performed anything he did as a reliever in Japan. It is a little bit harder to gauge Japanese relief pitchers over starters because you see less of the relievers. In the end you can compare Nomo to Matsuzaka and say well if he is only going to be decent for a few years don't get him. While Nomo was striking out alot of hitters he was also walking 100+ guys a year in Japan. In 1993 he walked 148 batters. I just don't think Matsuzaka is going to be a flame out after 3-5 years. He doesn't have control issues, his velocity is good to excellent, and doesn't rely on a quirky motion to decieve hitters. He is as sound of an investment as any of the free agent pitchers on the market. I would love to have him on this team regardless of the posting fee if this team is serious about winning soon.

Submitted by Little Nate Lewis on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:23 pm

"a losing battle is a losing battle and what i see pinella doing isnt sticking up for players." I would guess many players disagree although I obviously don't have any first hand knowledge. Just a hunch.

Submitted by MikeC on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:34 pm

Oh and if you want to keep tabs on Matsuzaka info a great little website is doing that. It's a Yankee fan doing the site so you got to put up with that but otherwise some nice info. http://matsuzaka.blogspot.com/ The scouts or whatever say he has a devestating slider and changeup, and his fastball can get up to 95 when he wants to, but usually keeps it in the 92-93 range. Don't how much of this is true but it is interesting none the less... It used to be crackling good and topped 100 in the 2004 Olympics, but he doesn't usually top out anymore. He pitches. He realized that he was going to pull a Nomo and burn his arm out if he continued to blaze it by guys. His offspeed stuff is so freakishly good that his 92-93 MPH stuff on the black looks like 96-97. He can still pop one on you if you sleep. If that is true it means he has truely learned how to pitch instead of just relying on pure raw talent to power through a game.

Submitted by jacos on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:45 pm

"He is as sound of an investment as any of the free agent pitchers on the market." Can they get WGN in Japan? Serious. If the Cubs can find away to get that money back they might get involved. Anything to get those rating numbers back over the White Sox.

Submitted by Doug Dascenzo on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:57 pm

Chad: "Doug, how about the luck in the regular season of getting to play the Pirates, Cubs and Brewers 18 times vs. playing in any other division with good teams? Don't you understand that the fact that there is luck inherent in all sports and games but the reason you play 7 games series is to keep that down. If its all just luck, the lets have a 1 game world championship." Playing a 1 game championship would be pretty much all luck, which negates the point of what I'm saying. And yes, I do understand that there is luck in all sports, but this is what makes baseball truly unique - they play 162 games during the regular season. 162 is a large enough sample size to even out weird, lucky breaks that happen here and there. I don't think a 7 game series is really enough to even out luck. It's better than a 1 game series, but you still end up with some teams winning that probably aren't really the best teams. And seriously, everyone gets to play bad teams during the year. True, an unbalanced schedule can pronounce this, but unless you're in the AL East, I'd bet that most teams have a relatively even strength of schedule.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:08 pm

http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/cubs.asp?id=239493 nothing earth-shattering but nothing as stupid as base-clogging. But he did note the importance of on-base percentage and said his hitting coach would work with hitters to raise the Cubsí walk total from a paltry 395 this year, which was last in the league. Piniella said he values statistical analysis in general. ìI like numbers; I love numbers,î he said. ìI look at all the reports. I think the game of baseball is a percentage game. The more I can keep percentages on our teamís side, the more successful the team will be. ìDo I use my gut from time to time? Yeah, obviously. But if itís gut or numbers, you give me the numbers 90 percent of the time, and thatís the end of that.î

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:13 pm

"But if itís gut or numbers, you give me the numbers 90 percent of the time, and thatís the end of that." actually lou, its 88.39727% of the time. what an idiot.

Submitted by the E-Man on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:24 pm

BOB COSTAS - on the Dan Patrick Show today gave his two cents on not only the historic "fold" of the Ariz. Cardinals on mon. night, but had some interesting A-Rod to the Cubs comments. The summary is that, "of all the teams", that the Yankees and A-Rod could find to "save face" with by leaving NY, it would be the Cubs, due now to Sweet :Lou. Based on his previous relationship with Firey One, Wrigley Field (I am sick of this reason sometimes and wish it were "winning tradition"), the City, etc. It is a complex scenario there - he sort of wants to stay a Yankee - the team really would like to keep him - but he will be booed at every at-bat in his home park until the 2007 Playoffs roll around again. Like LaTroy Hawkins, only with talent. This appears now to be more of a "National" b.ball story than I thought. I cannot fathom, however, what kind of pitching we'd have to give up in order to make this happen? We don't have any - and - what we'd lose, the team would have to pick up again. Finally, how many productive seasons does he have left, and, how much of his remaining salary annualized would cut into the Cubs overall budget of the discussed $115MM? Manny? AZ PHIL? Rob G?

Submitted by Barry Foote on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:31 pm

Lou Piniella is the Cubs new manager because the man who ultimately hired him is a marketing guy. I don't buy the fact that McDonough wanted Girardi. Piniella will help sell tickets. I don't think that this necessarily means that it is a bad baseball move, especially in the short term.

Submitted by Chad on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:34 pm

Doug, St. Louis' 83 wins was good for third place at BEST in any other division. That's not luck? That is 100% luck. So 162 games or not you can't say that it evens out.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:36 pm

I actually heard that to E-man. The cards really do fall into A-rod's hands as he has the no-trade clause and I don't think the Yanks are absolutely dying to get rid of him. I said yesterday that I thought the Cubs would have the upper hand if he is getting moved, but I really don't know what we'd give up to be honest. We can't really afford to give up any major league ready pitching beyond Marshall or Guzman. Prior? sure, but his value is rather low at the moment. A 3-team deal as others outlined would seem to make the most sense, finding a team willing to take some younger pitching and could give the Yanks whatever there looking for which I assume to be pitching. The contract isn't that big a deal anymore. He's got 4 years left at about $17 mil average that the Yanks owe. Rangers are on the hook for the rest although they may get some relief if he's dealt again. I'd imagine any trade would involve the Yanks taking a little bit of the cash on. He'd suffice as the big bat we'd need and move to SS. Probably fill CF with a Roberts-type or Pierre again and then figure out 2b.

Submitted by the E-Man on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:41 pm

ROB G: Thanks for the perspective on that. Is there a sentiment that he has at least 3 more productive years left? Isn't he in his early 30's?

Submitted by Doug Dascenzo on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:47 pm

Chad: "St. Louis' 83 wins was good for third place at BEST in any other division. That's not luck? That is 100% luck. So 162 games or not you can't say that it evens out." I'm not sure what your point is. You're actually supporting my point. Are the Cardinals a better team than the Mets? Nope. But they are probably going to beat them and go to the World Series, because Jeff Weaver pitched better than he was expected to and the Mets lost 2 of their best pitchers recently. Seems like luck to me. My solution to the divisional mess is to just eliminate divisions altogether, and put the top 4 teams from the NL and AL into the playoffs. That way, you don't end up with an 83-win team in the playoffs to begin with. I don't see any real benefit to having divisions, except that with an unbalanced schedule it makes traveling easier.

Submitted by big john stud on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:55 pm

"A 3-team deal as others outlined would seem to make the most sense, finding a team willing to take some younger pitching and could give the Yanks whatever there looking for which I assume to be pitching." - Before unloading a bunch of young pitching for A-Rod in a 3 team deal, I'd try to eliminate the middle-man by going straight to the Marlins and seeing if they wanted a bunch of young talent for Cabrera. I'd absolutely prefer him over A-Rod.

Submitted by Rishi on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:10 pm

Chad: "If winning in the post season is all about luck, then I quit being a fan. Lets just play the regular season and let the team with the best record be the champ." Just like they do in football (soccer) around Europe. Seems to work for them pretty well!

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:19 pm

of course I'm all for Miguel Cabrera. The thing is the upgrade of A-rod over Izturis is far more significan than Cabrera over Murton or Jones. Of course if Cabrera is available you have to go for it, but then I think you still need a CF or 2B with some pop. If they could manage A-rod, you could easily go with Roberts or Pierre in CF and theriot or someone similar at 2b.

Submitted by Chris on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:24 pm

the mets really miss cliff floyd in the lineup...endy chavez is killing them.

Submitted by Chad on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:33 pm

Doug, I am saying that if you are saying that luck is a big part of the post season, then I am saying that it is also a very big part of the regular season. Rishi, I know you don't know how I feel about soccer but your post is more reason for me to believe in a post season.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:42 pm

so the fact that the cards might make the world series has to do with their immense superiority in talent and baseball smarts or because the Mets players are dropping like flies? I'd vote the latter, which seems to me that the Cardinals have gotten a bit "lucky" that most of there injuries happened during the season and the Mets got hit in the playoffs. Call me crazy though....

Submitted by Doug Dascenzo on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:54 pm

Chad: I can accept your argument that luck plays a part in the regular season as well (e.g. DLee's injury was certainly luck that never balanced out whereas bad calls by umpires are usually balanced out by good calls over a season). I just think that even a bad team can win a 7 game series every now and then, but only a truly good team can win 90+ games during the season and on a consistent basis (the original argument from ~ a week ago was about the A's and their success/lack of success in the regular season and post-season).

Submitted by Joey from Iowa on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:01 pm

I stopped reading at #35, Crunch----question for you. Have Piniella teams ever not had fun???? Seems like the NASTY Boys had more fun than any team in the bigs. They were also nasty ass competitors. Piniella was the leader of the crew. Your NCR example is meaningless

Submitted by no on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:04 pm

*so the fact that the cards might make the world series has to do with their immense superiority in talent and baseball smarts or because the Mets players are dropping like flies?* Nah, it's because Joe Buck and Tim McCarver--those wiley Cardinal lovers--have a deal with Satan. They must, otherwise they wouldn't even be employed. Seriously, what has America done to deserve damn near 6 days-a-week in October of Joe Buck?

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:06 pm

did i call pinella a bad manager? no, i just said his meltdowns are pretty old/tired and i hope he's over them. did i say anything about who's having fun? no, i said he has a habit of losing what he's trying to do in the first place out there...delays games...becomes bigger than the game...and is generally made fun of like the clown he's acting like by everyone around him. yeah, lots of people are having fun...the other dugout, the umps, the announcers, the fans, and probally some people on his own bench looking at mr "here we go again" ballance spinning plates on his nose while elephants march around him. the NCR example points to a guy losing focus of what he's trying to acomplish in the first place and getting so involved in it personally he loses sight of those around him. lou's pissed at a call that isnt gonna be reversed...hey, just hope its not game 1 of a 3-4 game series. no one has much bad to say about lou the manager, but lou-the-human-volcano's act isnt something i feel is such a touchy target to wish would go away.

Submitted by tbone on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:11 pm

"Seriously, what has America done to deserve damn near 6 days-a-week in October of Joe Buck?" Maybe it's the death of habeus corpus that was signed into law yesterday. We are now forced to listen to Buck on games and endless commmercials without anyone having to tell us why.

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:13 pm

GAAAAAAAAAAAAS!

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:15 pm

got to go with Joey on that one, the NCR example was lost on me too. Doesn't seem like Lou has any problems with players respecting him and the players can't just walk out and quit anyway. He probably takes it a bit far, but at least he's passionate about winning and isn't going to fold his arms and go "aw shucks" if he feels his team is getting screwed. I'll take that any day.....

Submitted by the E-Man on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:15 pm

CRUNCH: " just said his meltdowns are pretty old/tired and i hope he's over them." Not me. Since when is the last time you've seen any fire from a manager at Clark and Addison, CRUNCH? Last year during the Sox game at Wrigley on a play at the plate, we got, "Well, from my angle I couldn't see it..." REMEMBER that?! I'll be glad to see an occasional meltdown when a player is being defended. Not every call of course, but once in a while it would be a welcomed gesture for a change on the North Side.

Submitted by Chad on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:26 pm

"I just think that even a bad team can win a 7 game series every now and then, but only a truly good team can win 90+ games during the season and on a consistent basis (the original argument from ~ a week ago was about the A's and their success/lack of success in the regular season and post-season)." Yes. A bad team (The Cubs) can win four straight against a better team (The Cards/Astros) But in a multi-tiered playoff system, that bad team would not win the World Series, nor would they find themselves in a position to be in the playoffs. Don't you get it? Only good teams make the playoffs. Some are better than others. But none the less, they had to win to get in. Some more lucky than others (05 Padres and 06 Cards), some teams have injured players (Mets), some teams get to play injured teams (Cards) and some teams have AHOLE fans who interfere with a ball in play that would have been out #2 putting their favorite team merely 4 freaking outs away from their first World Series in 58 years!!!!!!! BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTMMMMMMMMMMMMAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Submitted by Vince on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:31 pm

"If winning in the post season is all about luck, then I quit being a fan" Dear Santa, All I want for Christmas is for you to prove that winning in the post season is all about luck. Thank you, Vince

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:39 pm

is it really that radical that i think lou's time wasting and pointless meltdowns are useless distractions? and im not even talking about it being some huge thing that destroys teams... im just saying its just useless motion... stuff like Z breaking a bat on his knee is cool as hell, but its still pointless and can have reprocusions later...not all cool looking crap is cool without question. pin making an ass of himself early in a series with some of the oldtimer umps out there can have a definate effect. dont wanna hear any more pin vs. the umps conspiracy crap that's been following him cuz he cant understand why he doesnt win every close play his way and never gets his "make up call" for blown plays. im not even trying to say its a huge deal..just sometime i dont wanna see cuz its played out.

Submitted by Chad on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:06 pm

Thanks Vince you're a real mensch. You want me to leave this board? Come out and say it. Be man for once. Sample of Chad-less TCR: Poster A: We need better OBP Poster B: Oh yeah totally Poster C: You guys are so right on Poster D: Yeah zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Submitted by Chad on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:06 pm

"Be man for once"? Learn to type for once. Be A man for once

Submitted by Little Nate Lewis on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:14 pm

#42 of 67: By crunch (October 18, 2006 03:13 PM) "But if itís gut or numbers, you give me the numbers 90 percent of the time, and thatís the end of that." actually lou, its 88.39727% of the time. what an idiot. - What the hell is your problem with Lou Crunch? The guy just signs on yesterday, he comes in with a winning tradition, and you are already piling on him for some insignificant quotes in probably the 30th beat story he sat down for in one day? Lets at least let him screw up some games before we start calling him an idiot.

Submitted by Mr. Whipple on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:14 pm

Crunch, Your comments aren't radical in the least--temper tantrums on the field can certainly be thought of as a pointless distraction. On the other hand, everything with The Toothpick was inward and subdued. Press attacking the players? Circle the wagons. Play stinks? Respond flatly. Player misbehaving? Deal with it privately. I think that many people are thrilled to have a manger who, if nothing else, will openly share their frustration. We sure got plenty of that. I think your point is logical, but a good many of us are waaaay past logic. Go get 'em Lou!!!!!!@##@$!

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:17 pm

I think Crunch was being funny there Nate Lewis, of course maybe so were you.

Submitted by IM Slacker on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:22 pm

Don't you get it? Only good teams make the playoffs. Some are better than others. But none the less, they had to win to get in. Some more lucky than others (05 Padres and 06 Cards), some teams have injured players (Mets), some teams get to play injured teams (Cards) and some teams have AHOLE fans who interfere with a ball in play that would have been out #2 putting their favorite team merely 4 freaking outs away from their first World Series in 58 years!!!!!!! This sort of sounds like an argument that the effect of luck is magnified in the playoffs. Please, don't leave the board Chad. You're way too much fun. Also, what's with all of the shorthand obscenities lately? Have you turned over a new leaf?

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:23 pm

I don't think they're radical either crunch, I'm just surprised you think they could be detrimental in any way. who cares if they hold up games and who cares if the other teams laugh? who cares if your own team laughs at you for that matter? a few moments of levity are going to be needed over a full season. if I thought his players lost respect for him because of it, I could see a problem. But that sure doesn't seem to be the case. the ump thing is a whole lot of nothing. 100 cameras at every game, if an ump starts holding grudges and shit, it's going to be pretty obvious. and after hearing the a's players saying macha never stood up for them in front of the umps, I think it does matter to players, even if lou takes it to another level.

Submitted by Little Nate Lewis on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:28 pm

Actually I wasn't but if Crunch was being funny, my fault. I completely misinterpreted him. After reading all of the other comments made about his dislike of Lou's on the field antics, including an extensive comparison with his past situation at NCR, I just figured that comment was further piling on his apparent dislike of Lou. Again, if it was a joke, totally my fault.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:31 pm

just guessing that was crunch's biting satire on our obsession over a few statistical points by pointing out 88 pt whatever instead of 90. crunch can clarify though... http://cubs.scout.com/2/580691.html Nic Jackson hitting the minor league free agent list, no word on anyone else yet although the deadline was Oct. 15th. Teams can begin signing players on Sunday.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:34 pm

I found this over at northside baseball as part of someone's signature on the message board. I'm not sure if it's really from a chat or someone with a wicked sense of humor, but funny nonetheless. Miguel (chicago): Is Neifi Perez the reason parents all over the country tell their children to keep playing baseball no matter how much they stink? SportsNation Jim Callis: (2:19 PM ET ) They tell them that, and also to befriend Dusty Baker.

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:51 pm

was a joke...no biggie. about the whole pin thing...i really dont care that much...its just something i personally never liked seeing. and yeah, there are a few cowboy umpires out there...and not just the ones that cut country/western albums with cowboy songs on them. i dont really think there's a positive or a negative lean to a blowup...sometimes, depending on what crew you got and how things have been going it could be a good or bad thing. pin's blowups rarely just pop up...he complains...he bitches...then suddenly he just decides enough is enough and goes out there to blow up. i'd rather see him use the #2 slot in a more productive way than dust than change any of the blowing-up stuff. its just something im tired of watching him having a reputation for. earl weaver did it better anyway =p

Submitted by Carlos on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:56 pm

"Sample of Chad-less TCR: Poster A: We need better OBP Poster B: Oh yeah totally Poster C: You guys are so right on Poster D: Yeah zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" Post of the year.

Submitted by Joey from Iowa on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:22 pm

#59 of 80: By crunch did i call pinella a bad manager? no, i just said his meltdowns are pretty old/tired and i hope he's over them. did i say anything about who's having fun? --- Chhhhh yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..........you did.....the phrasing don't have to be literal for you or anyone to MAKE A POINT. Your gist is LouPA is a fool........and that opposing dugouts and umpires simply think he's a joke. The point of most of us re: LouPa is: 1.Give him a chance before you roast him. 2. Everything else being equal, the sumbitch will be entertaining when he melts down. 3. SOME Cubs players lack fire.....respect.....and part of respect is fear. They better fear LouPa or he might kick somebody's ass in the alley!!!!! LouPa gives a chance......what he does with it remains to be seen...btu he gives the Cubs a chance. You, on the other hand Captain Crunch, are always willing to reverse your statements, cry the victim, and take your ball and go home. You...Crunchy baby...have developed in to what you despise about LouPa.....when you think someone is challenging you, you throw the cyber version of a fit and cry...Whaaaaa, MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!...I NEVER SAID THAT!!!!! You're entertaining baby....gotta give you that. Just like my new boy LouPA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Joey PA

Submitted by Joey from Iowa on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:26 pm

# 68 of 81.....Chad - I'm serious....my man love for Chad continues to grow. # 68 is the big email of the day.

Submitted by Mr. Whipple on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:35 pm

"Sample of Chad-less TCR: Poster A: We need better OBP Poster B: Oh yeah totally Poster C: You guys are so right on Poster D: Yeah zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" Who's Poster ZZZZZZZZZZZ?

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:40 pm

"Your gist is LouPA is a fool" no. and the rest of your rant is pretty much pointless based on the "no" i just gave you. you cant apply your conclusion to me when you cant even directly point to me saying it or a history of me having an agenda against him.

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:45 pm

btw...where exactly am i... "You, on the other hand Captain Crunch, are always willing to reverse your statements, cry the victim, and take your ball and go home." what convos have i ducked, when have i not owned up when wrong, and when do i "rub in" stuff im right about and have had long convo's about? and when am i reversing my statements other than when i learn something...i dont make statements and defend them blindly, i am capable of learning, and i dont feel any of this is a competition.

Submitted by Joey from Iowa on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:50 pm

Crunch....you and I,I think, have been down this road before. I even invited the powers that be to deny me access to TCR with my last pointed venom at your inconsistencies. I'll say it again....then I'm ignoring you. Your M.O. is to generalize....then when we/I generalize back...you emphatically state, "I DIDN'T SAY THAT." This pattern happens time and again with you. Too bad....you seem to be a smart guy.....knowledgeable.....but you seem MAD....Gee, maybe like your NCR boss???????????? I'll simply disagree with you...or agree if I see something that makes sense....and do it GENERALLY cuz you rarely give anything to point to. HOORAAAAYY LOU PA!!! ENTERTAIN ME....OR WIN.....BUT YOU DAMN WELL BETTER ENTERTAIN ME OR I'LL TURN ON YOU LIKE CRUNCH ALREADY HAS. In Lou PA we trust!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Joey

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:54 pm

christ man... you jump to a conclusion that involves me and im telling you you're on the wrong path and you just reply with more crap. you cant even point out specific things...just "your feeling" you also wanna try to insult me and you seem to really like this whole conversation. go internet.

Submitted by Joey from Iowa on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:55 pm

Oh my god.....both dugouts are anguishing in the Cards/Mets game over LaRussa out and arguing with the home plate umpire......how can we ever respect him? He's the laughing stock of the bigs. Get him a toothpick so he calms down. Now THAT'S funny, I don't care who you are. Sattire provided by, Joey....from Iowa

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:56 pm

your point is that you say i'm saying lou pinella is bad/awful/whatever. you cannot look and see that not only did i already cover that before it came an issue...i talked about *1* thing i did not like. one. this is not "all or nothing". i am allowed to not like something yet not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. hell, i dont even recall saying anything "yah!" or "boo!" about this whole manager thing other than i wish it was a no-name, but at least its over.

Submitted by Joey from Iowa on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:59 pm

Captain Crunch...I'm done with you...every time someone pins you down it's our fault. WE'RE stupid....or maybe it's just me..... I can live with that!!!! Talk baseball.....be rational...and everyone...again, maybe just me.... has a much better time. Sooo.....anybody considered the option that IF: We trade ARAM for AROD...or somce combo of players.....that POSSIBLY Scott Rolen is so disgruntled that the Cards may let him go????? A pipe dream I think......but....it IS the internet.

Submitted by Joey from Iowa on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:02 pm

Sorry....here I am starting an internet rumor and I was less than clear. Is there any way the Cubs could end up with Rolen AND AROD????? Thoughts?

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:02 pm

where did i say any of that? again, why do i keep gotta asking for you to back up all this hate you're trying to toss my way. you can't even pinpoint or explain how you came to the conclusion that made you mad to begin with... now you've said ive said/done/emoted/whatever "very time someone pins you down it's our fault. WE'RE stupid" dude...i cant make peace when i'm making you mad by doing things i'm not even doing?

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:04 pm

um no, Joey on the Rolen idea. Cards would never trade him to us anyway. Aramis for A-rod isn't very plausible as is.... He wouldn't sign with us to get traded and he'll most likely get a no-trade clause until he becomes a 10/5 man just like Derrek Lee did.

Submitted by Joey from Iowa on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:05 pm

Crunch....well said in #92. I don't agree. But can we agree to disagree? I missed an AA meeting today and I'm a little edgy. I am serious about the QU re: Rolen, though.

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:07 pm

dude, its all cool..ultimately, its internet stuff. im not here to piss people off...in my reply directly to your 1st question you asked at the end of the reply i put: "no one has much bad to say about lou the manager, but lou-the-human-volcano's act isnt something i feel is such a touchy target to wish would go away." seriously...i have no agenda against him, but i do hate that 1 aspect of his managing, but i dont enjoy the sideshow.

Submitted by Joey from Iowa on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:09 pm

Rob G....gottcha.....certainly the Cards wouldn't want Rolen traded within the NL Central.... In my minimal knowledge of FA, etc, it just FEELS like Rolen may be disgruntled....it also FEELS like the Cubs may have something the Cards need, such as a little pitching or maybe a Juan Pierre when Edmonds gets traded or waived..... I gotta quit missing my AA meetings....I always think I'm smarter than I really am when I miss those. Joey

Submitted by Joey from Iowa on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:13 pm

Crunch.......no problem.....you've a strong delivery in your messages....I've been accused of the same. I lied about the AA thing too..... My wife would beat me up if she knew I was being to mean to people on here or lying. She's a German/Bohemian woman......nasty......smarter than I am....23 years married and I'm scared of her. GAWWWDD...I REALLY think this shit is funny. What is WRONG with me? I really only want to chat-read about the Cubs.

Submitted by tbone on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:05 pm

Rob G, Someone should start looking at some Donnie Moore photos too. And what in God's name might Durham and AGonz have been wearing in their mitts? Goat skin batting gloves?

Submitted by Wes on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:59 pm

About the Rolen thing... I'm starting to think he might be a tad more available than he was before the LCS started. Everything I've heard (thankfully not all of it from Joe Buck) is that he is really pissed off about not being in the lineup for Game #2 and that he feels a little betrayed by LaRussa. I don't have a source for that. But I've read it a couple places. Sue me. He's getting old. He gets hurt a lot, and you have to pay him a lot. Not saying it's a worthwhile investment, but he might be out there.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:04 pm

Rolen can be out there all he wants, he's just not going to come to the Cubs in a trade. On the other hand if A-rod wanted to go to St. Louis away from the limelight a bit, Rolen, Reyes & somebody for A-rod would make some sense. Just don't see A-rod's entourage going for that. in other notes, Oliver Perez vs Jeff Suppan in Game 7, what a classic. Of course, I'll be secretly rooting for either team in the World Series just to throw that whole AL is better than the NL thing upside down.

Submitted by the E-Man on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:18 pm

ROLEN is NOT a FA. The Cubs and Cards are NOT trading partners. Get in your head, Joey From Attumwa! I do not even recall the last Cubs/Trade. It can't be within the last 7-10 years. After Brock for Broglio, the trade door to this one team, rarely gets opened. FA is one thing - trade partners is something else. I wish the Cubs would do the Yankees-Red Sox thing of grabbing a player before the other team does, but the Cubs have sooo many holes. Certainly, they got the better of the deal slightly with JJ over Encarniacon this year, but it made no difference to the crap-ass team.

Submitted by the E-Man on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:19 pm

Er..I meant: I do not even recall the last Cubs/Cards Trade. It can't be within the last 7-10 years.

Submitted by Andrew on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:29 pm

On the other hand if A-rod wanted to go to St. Louis away from the limelight a bit, Rolen, Reyes & somebody for A-rod would make some sense. Both sides would do it, but the Cards can't afford A-Rod, even if the Yanks take some of the money. 'Course I won't rule it out, b/c then it would come true and they'd rule the NL Central for 20 years. Of course, I'll be secretly rooting for either team in the World Series just to throw that whole AL is better than the NL thing upside down. What?! Dude, you can't root for the Cards.

Submitted by Andrew on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:31 pm

Although, word around St. Louis is that Tony's leaving after this postseason. May take the A's job or the Giants job. Jose Oquendo may get the gig, if he does, although the rumor is Girardi might also get a look.

Submitted by milktoast on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:13 pm

Crunch as an impartial observor I would say you are here to piss people off . . .

Submitted by crunch on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:22 pm

well boo-hoo.

Submitted by Rob G. on Wed, 10/18/2006 - 10:36 pm

doesn't matter if both sides would do it, it would matter if A-rod wants to go there. I don't get the Tony rumor, why would he leave the best player on the planet to go manage a team that doesn't appreciate its manager or the Barry Bonds circus? Does Larussa need to get himself linked to every steroid guy out there? Girardi to St. Louis would be great, 18 times a year he'd make it his mission to screw us over. They'd probaly sign Pierre who'd go off for a 320/370 and 70 SB's next year. I can't really root for St. Louis or New York, but this whole AL superiority thing has kind of annoyed me all year. Not that they didn't have a couple better teams and all, but people are acting like the NL is the PCL or something.

Submitted by MikeC on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:12 am

St. Louis can afford A-rod, what are you talking about? Jim Edmonds makes $12 million, A-rod makes $16 million with the other part being paid by Texas. Jason Marquis makes $5 million, uh oh, that is more than enough to slap A-rod next to Pujols if they so wish. I don't think St. Louis wants to part with their pitching talent anyways whether he is available or not.

Submitted by Nick on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:19 am

It's late, but the last trade of two 25-man roster players between the Cubs/Cards that I can remember was Morgan/Zeile. And the last trade of somebody above average was probably Sutter/Durham.

Submitted by Dusty Baylor on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:18 am

Don't forget the amazing Tye Waller in the Durham/Reitz for Sutter trade!!!! Ugh...

Submitted by BadGuy on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:20 am

OK, had a dream last night, and just wanted to get this down so I don't forget it. The main focus of the dream was something else entirely but on the tv in my dream I saw the 07 Cubs line-up and it was this.... 1b D. Lee 2b A. Soriano SS C. Isturiz 3b.A. Ramirez RF J. Jones CF V. Wells LF M. Murton C. M. Barrett P. J. Schmidt

Submitted by the E-Man on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:23 am

Oh yeah. Todd Ziele trade was 1995. That would be 11 years ago? Whereby he batted .221 for the North Siders in half a season... Which underlines my point in #102.

Submitted by Ryno on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:35 am

Rob G.: I don't get the Tony rumor, why would he leave the best player on the planet to go manage a team that doesn't appreciate its manager or the Barry Bonds circus? I think Tony's been ticking off the players. Scott Rolen hasn't been too happy with him lately, and neither has Marquis. milktoast: Crunch as an impartial observor I would say you are here to piss people off . . . You must not have been around very long. Crunch is a prolific poster who has a history of not taking sides. All he said was he doesn't like Piniella's "fiery" style and that he finds it childish. I can understand that point of view. Personally, I like it. I think that style can light a fire under a team. It's a welcome change to Dusty's laid-back attitude.

Submitted by CT Steve on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:51 am

Soriano, Wells, and Schmidt? And I have a recurring dream that I'm on stage with the Rolling Stones...

Submitted by Ryno on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:21 am

Amusing headline on my Foxsports.com RSS rumor feed: "Cubs want free agent Soriano to leadoff?" Just one itsy-bitsy little questions: If the guy can hit 46 HR/year, why the F* would you bat him leadoff? How does that make any sense? Bahhh, stupid rumors.

Submitted by Arizona Phil on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:47 am

#44 of 114: By the E-Man (October 18, 2006 03:24 PM) The summary is that, "of all the teams", that the Yankees and A-Rod could find to "save face" with by leaving NY, (Bob Costas believes) it would be the Cubs, due now to Sweet :Lou. Based on his previous relationship with Firey One, Wrigley Field (I am sick of this reason sometimes and wish it were "winning tradition"), the City, etc. It is a complex scenario there - he sort of wants to stay a Yankee - the team really would like to keep him - but he will be booed at every at-bat in his home park until the 2007 Playoffs roll around again. Like LaTroy Hawkins, only with talent. This appears now to be more of a "National" b.ball story than I thought. I cannot fathom, however, what kind of pitching we'd have to give up in order to make this happen? We don't have any - and - what we'd lose, the team would have to pick up again. Finally, how many productive seasons does he have left, and, how much of his remaining salary annualized would cut into the Cubs overall budget of the discussed $115MM? Manny? AZ PHIL? Rob G? ---- E-MAN: Hendry acquired one high-profile offensive-oriented A. L. shortstop when he had the opportunity to do so (Nomar in July 2004, when he could have had Orlando Cabrera instead), so I think it is likely that IF Hendry has the payroll available to do it (if the 2006 payroll budget is $115M, he should have about $40M to spend on new players), and IF the Yankees decide that it would be best for everybody to move A-Rod, and IF A-Rod waives his "no trade," then Hendry would take A-Rod in a heartbeat. In fact, one of the lesser factors involved in Hendry targeting Piniella could be Uncle Lou's previous positive relationship with A-Rod, should A-Rod become available (likewise Piniella's previous positive history with Japanese players like Ichiro and Sasaki possibly helping to influence Japanese players to consider signing with the Cubs). So if A-Rod becomes available and would agree to a trade to the Cubs, what could the Cubs offer the Yankees in return? As I posted on a previous thread a couple of days ago, the Yankees would probably want an established third-baseman and a proven healthy rotation starter in return. The Cubs have both the third-baseman (Aramis Ramirez) and a proven rotation starter (Carlos Zambrano), but I can't see the Cubs trading either. The problem with trading Ramirez is that either he exercises his player option and becomes a FA and signs elsewhere, or the Cubs re-sign him for "Derrek Lee money" and a "no trade." Not to mention that if the Cubs re-sign Ramirez after the end of the Free-Agent Filing Period (the first 15 days after the end of the World Series), he would get an automatic Type XX "no trade" until next June 15th, and even if he "waives" this "no trade," the Cubs can only take back cash or contracts worth no more than $50,000. And A-Rod is making a lot more than $50,000! So the only other way the Cubs can satisfy the Yankees would probably be by including a third team in the deal, a team that has both a third-baseman and a proven rotation starter and that is in a rebuilding mode and would be interested in acquiring several MLB or near-ready prospects AND payroll relief. And I think the Texas Rangers fit that description to a "T." The Rangers have an established third-baseman (Hank Blalock) and a proven rotation starter (Kevin Millwood), and both would fill needs for the Yankees (Blalock replacing A-Rod at 3B, and Millwood taking a slot in the starting rotation). And besides the $50M in "payroll relief" 2007-10 the Rangers would realize by moving Millwood and Blalock, the Cubs have the quantity of young players the Rangers would want back: Such as... 1. Felix Pie (could replace FA Gary Matthews, Jr in CF) 2. Scott Moore (could replace Hank Blalock at 3B) 3. Sean Marshall and Angel Guzman--or Ryu, Mateo, Marmol, et al, if the Rangers prefer (could replace Millwood and FA Vicente Padilla in the starting rotation). This is the type of trade teams in a rebuilding mode make. As far as the economics of the trade are concerned, not counting money the Yankees and Rangers and A-Rod have agreed to defer (Yankees deferring $1M in 2007 salary to 2011, and the Rangers deferring $33M in assignment bonuses to 2016-25), A-Rod gets $94M in salary over the next four seasons: $22M in 2007 $24M in 2008 $24M in 2009 $24M in 2010 The Rangers pay $7M of A-Rod's salary in 2007, $8M in 2008, $7M in 2009, and $6M in 2010, and the Yankees pay the balance (escalating salaries of $15M-$16M-$17M-$18M in the years 2007-10). A-Rod also has a contract void option after each season that (given the current FA market) he will NOT exercise in a million years. So if they keep him, the Yankees will owe A-Rod $66M over the next four years, and Millwood and Blalock (combined) make about $50M through 2010. Millwood gets $27M over the years 2007-09 with a $12M vesting option in 2010 (which the Yankees would probably have to agree to guarantee in advance to get Millwood to waive his limited "no trade"), and Blalock gets $10.7M combined in 2007-08 and then he will be a FA. Not that the Yankees would care, but besidesc moving A-Rod and getting a replacement third-baseman and a rotation starter in return, they save $16M over that four-year period. By trading Millwood and Blalock, the Rangers would save $50M in payroll 2007-10, and they would probably also want the Cubs and/or Yanks to pay some or all of the $28M ($7M average per season) the Rangers owe A-Rod in salary 2007-10. The Yankees could use the $16M they save 2007-10 by trading A-Rod to pay some of that (maybe by taking back $16M in 2007-08 payroll from the Cubs, like maybe Cesar Izturis and Ryan Dempster), and then the Cubs could agree to pay most or all of the $28M the Rangers owe A-Rod 2007-10 (offset by not having to pay Izturis and Dempster $16M 2007-08, for a total actual cost of $12M spead-out over four years, or $3M average per season 2007-10 added to A-Rod's average $16.5M annual salary 2007-10). The bottom line is, I believe if the Yankees decide it would be best for them to move A-Rod, and if A-Rod agrees to waive his "no trade," that the Cubs would be the front-runner to get him. And Hendry will probably be more-than-willing to trade some of the Cubs best prospects to get the deal done.

Submitted by Sweet Lou on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:57 am

#117 AZ Phil -- Excellent post. I hope that the GMs for the Cubs, Yanks and Rangers are as smart as you.

Submitted by The E-Man on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:05 am

AZ PHIL: Man, that was so detailed and well-thought out. When you want the best, you ask for the best! However, one thing you did not include was how much do you feel, is "left in the tank" in Alex Rodriguez?

Submitted by Arizona Phil on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:15 pm

#119 of 119: By The E-Man (October 19, 2006 12:05 PM) AZ PHIL: Man, that was so detailed and well-thought out. When you want the best, you ask for the best! However, one thing you did not include was how much do you feel, is "left in the tank" in Alex Rodriguez? ---- E-MAN: It all depends on what the Cubs 2007 payroll budget is. If it is indeed $115M (as has been reported in the media), and with the Cubs on the hook for about $75M in 2007 payroll right now (and I am including in this $75M an expected $16M in salaries for arbitration-eligible guys---$11M for Zambrano, $4M for Prior, and $1M for Ohman, and I am figuring that if Aramis Ramirez gets an extention, that it will be back-loaded such that he will still get his $11M in 2007), the Cubs will have about $40M available in 2007 payroll. If the Cubs were to make a deal for A-Rod where they simply take on his "Yankee" salary, then that costs the Cubs $15M in 2007 payroll, leaving $25M for other additions. Obviously, that $25M could be used in various different ways. The Cubs could maybe sign Alfonso Soriano for around $15M in 2007 salary, and that would leave $10M for new pitchers, although an extra $4M could be added to that (bringing the total '07 payroll available for pitchers to $14M) if Mark Prior were to be non-tendered, although that would also create another hole in the starting rotation. If Pierre is re-signed (probably for about $8M in 2007 payroll) instead of Soriano, that would leave upwards of $17M (if Prior stays) or $21M (if Prior is non-tendered) to be spent on new pitchers. If the Cubs sign Pierre instead of Soriano, and then sign Jason Schmidt (who will likely be making about $14M in '07), that would leave only about $3M (or $7M if Prior gets non-tendered) for another pitcher (maybe a FA like Miguel Batista, or a pitcher who could be available in a trade, like Jake Westbrook or Jason Jennings, both of whom are in their last year before becoming a FA). Basically, the Cubs could acquire A-Rod AND either 1. Sign Soriano and acquire (via FA or trade) one second-tier rotation starter (or two second-tier rotation starters if Prior is non-tendeded) or 2. Sign Schmidt and re-sign Pierre, non-tender Prior, and sign or acquire one second-tier starter (a FA like Batista, or somebody like Westbrook or Jennings to be acquired in a trade). or 3. Don't sign Schmidt or Soriano, and instead use the $25-29M to re-sign Pierre for about $8m in '07 salary and acquire two second-tier rotation starters (or acquire three second-tier rotation starters if Prior is non-tendered). Now ,if the Cubs 2007 payroll is more like $100M, then the Cubs could still acquire A-Rod, but they would have only about $10M available (or $14M if Prior is non-tendered) for other needs (a CF and a starting pitcher). Of course, if that's the case, you could start talking about trading a reliever (like Bob Howry) for a starter (like the White Sox Javier Vazquez).

Submitted by The E-Man on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:47 pm

AZ PHIL: These are several interesting options, IF a deal is to be made. Therefore, you are optimistic that at age 31 there are 3 more good years left with A-Rod's skills?

Submitted by Arizona Phil on Thu, 10/19/2006 - 10:43 pm

E-MAN: I don't know, but to tell you the truth, at this point, the way things went in 2006, I'm willing to take a chance that a change of scenery and a change of league and reuniting with Lou Piniella might make A-Rod become the player he used to be. I do know that I would very much like to see a power-hitting SS in the middle of the Cubs lineup.

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