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Last updated 11-17-2023
 
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PITCHERS: 20
Adbert Alzolay 
Michael Arias
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Porter Hodge
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The Cubs-Cardinals Rivalry in Perspective

Submitted by WISCGRAD on

After this weekend's Cardinals sweep of the Cubs, many fans have been wondering if this really is as much of a rivalry as the media makes it out to be. The perception seems to be that the fans are not as into it as they are other rivalries (perhaps White Sox, Royals), and that it has been a mostly one-sided match-up in recent years. While it is difficult to measure the first claim, we can examine the second. The table below shows the last 20 years of Cubs-Cardinals match-ups, including the head-to-head record for that year and each team’s overall winning percentage at the end of the season. Overall, the Cubs’ record vs. the Cardinals for the past 20 years has been 147-165, or a .471 winning percentage, which suggest the teams have played each other at much closer to parity than perceptions suggest. The Cubs have mostly held their own. This is even more impressive when looking at the season winning percentages. The Cardinals have had the better season record in 15 of the last 20 seasons, yet the Cubs have taken 9 of the head-to-head matchups. In several seasons (2005, 2006, and 2010) the Cubs far exceeded expectations: below-.500 Cubs teams dominated much better Cardinals teams on the season. These are small sample sizes and anything can happen in a short series, so we can’t take much away from this. But it should at least be clear that the Cardinals have had an advantage in the rivalry in recent decades but that is largely due to them fielding far superior teams, and that advantage hasn’t been as big as we might think.     

 

Year

Head-to-Head Record (Cubs-Cardinals)

Cubs Season Winning %

Cardinals Season Winning %

2014

9-10 (.474)

.451

.556

2013

7-12 (.368)

.407

.599

2012

7-10 (.412)

.377

.543

2011

5-10 (.333)

.438

.556

2010

9-6   (.600)

.463

.531

2009

6-10 (.375)

.516

.562

2008

9-6   (.600)

.602

.531

2007

11-5 (.688)

.525

.481

2006

11-8 (.579)

.407

.516

2005

10-6 (.625)

.488

.617

2004

8-11 (.421)

.549

.648

2003

8-9   (.471)

.543

.525

2002

6-12 (.333)

.414

.599

2001

9-8   (.529)

.543

.574

2000

3-10 (.231)

.401

.586

1999

7-5   (.583)

.414

.466

1998

4-7   (.364)

.552

.512

1997

4-8   (.333)

.420

.451

1996

5-8   (.385)

.469

.543

1995

9-4   (.692)

.507

.434

Tags
Cubs
Cubs vs Cardinals Rivalry

Comments

Submitted by Old and Blue on Mon, 06/29/2015 - 06:06 pm

For me there's no real emotional power involved in this "rivalry" other than a minor annoyance at how good the Cards always are. It's St. Louis, though. Not much happening in that town other than their great baseball team. I find that preferable to a rivalry like the Dodgers and Giants, where people die, which is infantile.

Submitted by Carlito on Mon, 06/29/2015 - 06:26 pm

I'm kind of surprised that this is really being debated. I think it's one of the great rivalries for years now. Sure the last 5 years and beyond lacked intensity for obvious reasons. But the rivalry was pretty intense when the Cubs were winning division titles 1998-2003 etc. I just think we lost touch with the competitive nature of baseball in recent years period. There were some vicious battles in the 80's 90's 00's. Jim Edmonds Matt Morris Renteria Pujols Rolen. Those stadiums were rocking as recently is 2004. And of course late 60's. When I said the Cardinals whoop our asses I was talking specifically about this year. Pure kryptonite ... and of course in organizational championships etc. but head to head its a battle.

[ ]

Submitted by Old and Blue on Tue, 06/30/2015 - 06:09 am

I think it could become a good rivalry, but the Cubs will have to do their part. As excited as I am about the long term prospects, they're still basically a .500 team, pretty much as I expected at the beginning of the season. Until that changes, there's no real rivalry here.

[ ]

Submitted by VirginiaPhil on Tue, 06/30/2015 - 06:03 am

"one of the great rivalries" This is pure '80s nostalgia, Carlito. I can guess your age by it. The Cubs have had a few very good players, including half a dozen hall-of-famers, but the Cardinal greats have been transcendent: Hornsby, Dizzy Dean, Musial, Gibson, Ozzie Smith, Pujols. Cardinal managers in my own experience as a baseball fan: Schoendienst, Herzog, Torre, LaRussa. Three are in the hall of fame as managers, and the other one (Schoendienst) made it as a player and managed a thousand wins. What Cub manager belongs in the same sentence? Great Cardinal catchers that I remember: Torre, McCarver, Ted Simmons, Yadier. Any Cub catchers in the running there? How important is the catcher, anyway? I don't know, ask the Cardinals.

Submitted by John Beasley on Mon, 06/29/2015 - 06:40 pm

Nice snapshot. It just feels skewed right now because new Busch Stadium has only hosted two fewer World Series games than Wrigley Field. But it's nothing a little success wouldn't wash away.

Submitted by The E-Man on Mon, 06/29/2015 - 06:53 pm

Have to agree and my post from the other day prompted WISC to write this piece (just kidding. but maybe not after all). I have a couple interesting Cubs books on various historical elements. One is on the last pennant winner. From these, and I don't recall exactly the numbers, the first 50 years of the last Century belonged to the Cubs somewhat. After WWII, the Cardinals have pretty much been amazingly fominant with their organization, and overall talent machine. These are much larger sample sizes, and if you think about the pre--1950 Cubs teams, there were some great teams and players by percentage. While the Cards had the Gas House Gang in 1936 and then Musial won them another Title in 1942, they started kiicking the Cubs ass, and the National League post-war. Since 1946 they have finished 1st 17 times. Since the Divisions started, they have made the Playoffs 22 times (including this year). Almost 50% in 47 years. But we had Hack Wilson and Gabby Hartnett. The only "rivaly" now is that they are within driving distance. Just like the folks in Green Bay.

[ ]

Submitted by VirginiaPhil on Wed, 07/01/2015 - 07:44 am

"don't remember much else about the 60's" You're lucky. You can forget the day they traded Lou Brock for Rich Harden--I mean, Ernie Broglio. I would have guessed a tad younger, but it still makes sense. The 70's were your formative years as a young fan, and that was kind of an off-decade for the Cards. Then the 80's were a half-decent decade for the Cubs (though the Cards captured a Series and also lost two game-sevens). But let's not dwell on the past (please!). The Cubs have two rookies this year who could become transcendent players (that would be amazing); they seem to have a young catcher they like long-term; and the manager just needs to do one thing to punch his ticket to Cooperstown. So there is hope.

Submitted by CubbyBlue on Tue, 06/30/2015 - 06:22 am

I hadn't realized how these last 7 years of losing had sort of dulled my Cub senses.
Until this sweep.
(Insert the "what about the last 107 years?" joke here)
It's thrilling to be back in the real world of baseball competition.
And now I remember how painful it is, too.

Submitted by Cubster on Tue, 06/30/2015 - 06:35 am

The Cardinals-Cubs are still Hammer and Nail right now. WiscGrad's article shows it isn't always that way. Big picture history says it hasn't always been that way. The Cubs having losing teams for long stretches since 1945 says it trends that way but not prior to that inflection point. Theo says sustained success is what he is working on. Maddon's influence should be worth paying attention to in the month of July. Inflection points. These are hard to see on a day by day, game by game basis. I can only hope it's coming. I certainly felt the inflection point in regard to the franchise turnaround from the Hendry leftovers as some point last year. Probably about the time Alcantara was brought up. At least they have our attention again. It was hard to say that in 2010-14. Turning around an aircraft carrier takes time. I sense the course/direction change is near completion but the new route will take more time to pick up speed and of course there are patches of choppy weather. (Knot analogy, not mph)

Submitted by crunch on Tue, 06/30/2015 - 06:33 pm

outside of southern IL and surrounding areas i'm not sure the CHC/STL rivalry has touched the last few generations of fans. even the mcgwire/sosa chase in 98 didn't have much heat to it...it did have a lot of hugs and mutual respect talk, though. the rivalry is like some relic that keeps getting passed down that we're supposed to believe in, but the heart of the rivalry doesn't exist in many fans anymore. that said, the notion that the cards seem to luck into skillful players out of nowhere and pull wins out of thin air in the face of injury or bad contracts is strong. that goes for more teams than the cubs, though...and we're all getting sick of their insanely good "luck."

Recent comments

  • crunch (view)

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  • crunch (view)

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  • crunch (view)

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  • crunch (view)

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  • Arizona Phil (view)

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  • crunch (view)

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